The South African political era has now moved into a radical and separatist State. That is the warning from Neil de Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement (UIM). In this interview with BizNews, De Beer says: “MK, ANC, EFF, PA are no doubt radical parties. They are a radical entity with a radical philosophy of national, Socialistic, and may I call an overextension of capitalised ideology.” De Beer describes “the blood on the floor” at the Indedependent Electoral Commission’s (IEC) Counting Centre after the “Atom bomb of MK”, and gives his take on the coalition and power sharing talks currently being held behind the scenes. He dissects various power configurations, including a Government of National Unity of multiple parties like the ANC, the DA, the IFP, the Freedom Front Plus, and the ACDP. He also speaks about last night’s urgently convened Multi-Party Charter meeting which he chaired.
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:00.7)
The election is over, the votes have been counted and the results are in. Now South Africa is waiting to hear which parties will go into a coalition to rule the country for the next five years. We speak to Neil de Beer, the President of United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil De Beer (00:20.331)
Good morning. Just left last night where the blood is on the floor at the National Counting Centre in Midrand. So I’m back, I’m refreshed. I am here. And a lot of interesting stuff still coming. So good morning to you and the fantastic people of BizNews.
Chris Steyn (00:42.364)
Thank you, Neil. Tell us what is happening behind the scenes there.
Neil De Beer (00:47.051)
Yeah, I think firstly, I think there are two shocks that count. I think you and I have gone through quite a few interviews. May I say we’ve been right every time and I think in the next couple of days, call it seven, we will be right again on so many numerous opinions. But two surprises, not the entry of MK, but the atom bomb of MK. I think all of us knew 8%, 9%, 10 to the max. No, 15%. When that, in actual fact, they sat just across me, the whole array of the MK staff and admin. And as they went to 500,000, 1 million, 1.5 million and breach. I think they themselves were surprised. So that’s the absolute atom bomb shocker. And then the one that disappointed the most, I’m sorry, must tell you is Rise Mzansi. Absolute shocker of a result. So, Yin and Yang and those are the two.
The other one I think we all knew about the ANC, that the ANC would not get 50 plus one. We were wondering between 40 and 50. That is what we were discussing. I said they would be lucky to get 45. They got less. So an absolute desecration of the ANC, and the EFF now being outwitted by the, by the MK Party. I don’t think they are happy, but that is the result, I think, in a cumulative.
Now that the result is there, I think no matter what will happen, it will be called today. The IEC is resolute, although threats, as you probably know, came last night. No surprise with people wearing camo. And, you know, there we are. So I think the call will be made today. And yeah, then the jostling, which we will talk about, is going to be interesting.
Chris Steyn (02:52.86)
Mm. Mm.
Chris Steyn (03:10.012)
Now, obviously, coalition talks are taking place feverishly behind the scenes. What have you picked up?
Neil De Beer (03:19.915)
Chris, I chaired the MPC last night. There was an urgent call for the MPC partners to meet. We met at 7 last night, I chaired it. And various points of views. The MPC’s points of views are some say that it is over. You know, we did not reach the 50 plus 1. Which was the target of the reasoning why the Multi-Party Charter was founded. So we did not reach that. We are very short of that. So now the question is, where do we go? The absolute end result was that every member of the MPC has the full right to now go speak to whomever they wish. This is their democratic right. There is a technicality though in the publicised Multi-Party Charter document. And that is duration of such an agreement. And the other one is the absolute principle that are and is clear to everybody is if you’re a member of the Multi-Party Charter, whilst being a member, you cannot go into any power sharing on a national level with the ANC. So that is a fact that has not changed within the Multi-Party Charter.
If you do so, I’m just reading you the document. If you do so, you have to tender a written resignation from the Multi-Party Charter, which will then free you up to go into whatever partnership you want to, but you would have to bear the consequence. So at this current moment, no one has left the Multi-Party Charter. Well, according to us, nothing has been received. The meeting was only last night.
Chris Steyn (04:53.756)
Mm -hmm.
Chris Steyn (05:18.044)
Mm.
Neil De Beer (05:18.155)
Various statements will now come from various parties in the Multi-Party Charter. But I think, Chris, the next meeting of the MPC is on Thursday. We’ve given every party the right to go back. Many of them need to go back to their federal executives, their national executives, etc. That will only happen in the next two, three days. So I think by Thursday, latest Friday, we will have a very clear understanding locus standi of the future of the Multi-Party Charter. I just wanted to…
Chris Steyn (05:48.892)
And who do you think might be drafting a resignation letter already, Neil?
Neil De Beer (05:58.987)
I think the majority of the parties, if I can call it the bigger parties, the DA, the Freedom Front, the IFP, Action SA, vehemently wanted to ensure that the multi-party charting progress is going. There were different opinions of what could happen and the variables which we will discuss, which are so many now, that it is worthwhile to ride it out as the charter. But…
Chris Steyn (06:25.34)
Mm. Mm.
Neil De Beer (06:29.547)
When I say I think that the bigger parties might leave, it is not saying that they might leave to go and contravene what we have agreed, but they might leave because they would like to have that absolute freedom to go and say, I am going to partner with this because it makes sense according to my party. So I think, I think that’s what’s going to happen. They don’t have a choice, to be frank, Chris, because the fact of the matter is that the biggest discussions, which I think will be your next question of right, who’s coalating with whom, I think will then show you the possibilities.
Chris Steyn (07:08.124)
Quite.
Okay, let’s go there, Neil.
Neil De Beer (07:15.307)
So let’s do a map. I’m good at maps. I’m good at blocking things because then my IQ level adjusts to understand. So just quickly to make you understand the ANC has no choice now to form a coalition. So that’s a fact. They are, but they are at 40 just over percent, which still makes them the biggest block singular in the country.
So, no doubt, everybody that sits here will need to do that. Unless the other total 60% of the whole country that participated forms a blocked opposition coalition. Because, fact is, the ANC’s got 40.
So if all the parties that made it by miracle decide to get together in one mega tent and say, put all differences aside, put all history aside, that is now the EFF, MK, PA, IFP, DA, Action SA, Freedom, all of them, all of the jelly-tots, if they have to sit under one tent and go bugger that, we’re going to block them and get them out, well then the ANC’s opposition. Now what are the chances that all these variable smarty colours in a box is going to do that? Well, Chris, I don’t think so. I think power, greed, sentiment, tribalism, religious back, race is definitely not going to make that happen. Well, we don’t know. People do agree. We can walk on water, but..I doubt now we’ll sink to the knee.
So here’s the variable ANC, main tent pig in the poll. Now it’s going to either be ANC, DA. Let’s go there. So ANC, DA come together because, Chris, if the ANC wants to form a coalition outright, they need a party that has, hear me, a double digit. We spoke about that the last time.
If they’re going to do it and get more than 45, less than 51, they can only form a coalition then with a single-digit party that got between 0.1 and 9%. Then they would make it. Then they would go from 45 again to 51. Because they got below 45 and below 50.1, they now have to look for a party that has a double digit, in other words, 10% and over.
So their problem is they’ve got a variable now of choices. So their choices are DA, their choices are MK, their choices are ANC. That’s it. Those are the top ones. And the lingering PA that could also enter the factor. So you have a combination of singular choices and then you have a formation of a grouping. So for example, the DA, if partnering, might bring some of the other parties that are with them, which are like-minded, which have been with them in other coalitions, might bring them with.
So that’s why I say within the MPC, this is not true. This is speculation. For example, their partners that have always been with them, the IFP, the Freedom Front, the ACDP, those formations, they might be drawn into that GNU, Government of National Unity. So don’t be surprised if the, and I’m saying if the ANC now goes this way, this way, and the DA way, that there might be a discussion of a fully-fledged Government of National Unity of more than five parties in that combo. So it could be ANC, DA, IFP, Freedom Front, ACDP, whomever in that cavalcade. Because if they’re going to go that way, they might as well go the whole hog. I think Alec will agree. So from that side, it’s going to then, in my opinion, go totally that we will have a Government of National Unity based then on the principle if the DA makes the deal.
The flip side of this way is if they go MK, because remember MK’s double digit, then there will be a singular deal made. MK might also bring a DNA string along with it, which will be absolutely crazy because in their cavalcade it is MK, it’s ACT act with Ace Magashule, etc, etc but call them then the RET faction, and then obviously the EFF I think will stand alone if they have to do a coalition so that’s it because that’s the combinations there are no other…
Chris Steyn (12:39.58)
Mm.
Chris Steyn (12:54.768)
Now, if we look at some of the snapshots from the IEC, there was Duduzile Zuma, victorious, jubilant, defiant. She didn’t sound keen on a coalition of the African National Congress, did she?
Neil De Beer (13:13.739)
No, I think you can’t because while you are in battle, whoever commands that battle has to always presume and portray victory. But at the back, when you know that you don’t have all the dices on the table, but the roulette table is swinging, you will then ensure that whatever is the outcome of the flip of the dice, that you get your number. So they can stand there, they can posture, you know, and they can say what they want to.
But at the end of the day, those deals are being discussed. So I think the ANC is now sitting, can I call it as a casino dealer? It’s got five or six players. It’s looking at them. He knows some of them are good dice throws and he knows some of them are really reaching out. So the ANC as a casino dealer is now sitting. He’s spinning it and he’s going whoever is going to be the number he wants the house to win. And you now, not being a gambling man myself, but Kenny Rogers, you got to know when to hold them, you got to know when to fold them. That’s where I am with this roulette table of a politics.
Chris Steyn (14:30.78)
And that entrance of former president Jacob Zuma at the IEC Hall, that simply sent everybody into a frenzy. Must have been quite an electrifying moment.
Neil De Beer (14:40.619)
I’m sure.
Yeah, but I think he will even do that at a funeral. So I think we’ve got to now understand the following. Chris, one of the most fundamental statements that I made and which is the statement that apparently went viral across the board to millions was when I said that the ANC does not do politics. They do logistics.
And from so many people, every time I meet them, they’ll go politics-logistics. So that was the proven factor this time again. They absolutely nearly pulled through a 40% because they still had the capability to muster the logistics to move 7 million people, no matter what we say. So they are still there, the politics-logistics.
Now, Chris, are you ready for the next one, the one I know will now go viral as well, because this is the true reflection. And I think you will agree when I make it.
Neil De Beer (15:57.227)
Chris Steyn, the South African political era has now moved into something called a radical and separatist state. I’ll say it again, we will now be governed for the next five years by a radical and no doubt separatist State in Parliament.
Why do I say so? It is very clear that the abundance of the electorate, and by the way, we never got to the predicted IEC 66% of voter turnout. We flattened at 58.2%. Shocking. Shocking again. We never thought we would be below 18 million. We thought we would get close to 22. This is terrible. This is again an indictment on the democracy of this country.
Chris, after all my work, after all my fight, we only got 40,000 votes. But by the way, as a new party, 40,000, where other parties, eight of them that have been in existence for 25 years are below us. So not a bad one.
We missed Parliament by 5%. But this is what happened to us. We waited for the influx of voters to get us those that are, can I call it, the moderate middle. So the UIM is a moderate democratic entity. It’s not a radical entity. Our talk of implementation is radical, but not our party philosophy. We are a moderate democratic entity. We were totally annihilated by the fascist radical left and right. Totally. No matter how you argue and no matter how you’re trying to paint this zebra another color, it’s coming back black and white.
We are now in a phase of a radical separatist State. Radical because of the parties that this electorate of this country have now sent to Parliament. Think about it. EFF, PA, MK, ANC are undoubtedly radical parties. And separatist because we went for two kinds of votes which is totally separating the normal citizen of this country to very clearly two ideologies now. One, tribalism. Without a doubt, the rise now of tribalism in this country has become an absolute cornerstone of the next regime of five years of this country, where Zulu voted Zulu, Xhosa went for Xhosa. The Coloured brown community divided under two segments, but went for race.
And that is the second matter that was apparent. The racial separatist ideology. So we have a radical separatist government now in the making. Not good. Not good at all.
Chris Steyn (20:13.436)
Neil, what now for you and your party?
Neil De Beer (20:19.435)
Well, Chris, I’m clear. I have, every time that I have got up in my life, fought for justice. Justice is the cornerstone and truth will follow. I joined the Apartheid State on several levels of uniform because at that point, at the age of 18, I thought what I was fighting for was just and true. I went to the Border, I served my time in war, and I gave more time to that State at that time, as you know. But at a point, the Apartheid system to me became unjust. And that was my reasoning to then support in 1988 the formation of me taking part in the then combative Struggle. Not because of black and white, but because of injustice. A person has the right to come to that pinnacle point in his mind to adjudicate what is right and what is wrong. Some people make that decision, but they go on with life and don’t get up to fight for it. I did. I got up and I said, this is an injustice. We can’t continue with it. So I joined Umkhonto we Sizwe, fought for that liberation and drank the Oros that was served by Nelson Mandela. That same party who cost me so much by family members walking away, public hating, me and my own tribe trying to annihilate me because I stood up for what I thought was right.
Heaven behold, three years later, that which I sacrificed so much, and you know the book, you read our book, you know my journey, to then come to another dawning, that the same bloody group who you gave your blood for have become no better than the Apartheid government. Now there Neil de Beer sits and goes, Ay, ay, ay, ay. I didn’t see it. I’m not going to do this. And then I bloody did it. I got up again, Chris, four years ago and I said, this is wrong. Here we go again. So I got up and I fought for the past four years to ensure that that right must be fixing the wrong.
It’s cost me so much. It has cost me life. I’ve gone through cancer three times without anybody even noticing that for the past six months I’ve been under chemotherapy. I’ve got up every morning inhumanly going for my radiation, going for my chemotherapy, but putting on a smile. I’m now three months in remission, but I’m trying to tell you that not even the big C. could stifle my fight to bring justice, the truth into politics.
It is clear that this party, the UIM, has a right of existence. We are still in local government. We are in three metros. We will be so until 2026. And in 18 months from now, Chris, the new election starts, funny enough. The new election of local government.
And that’s the question we now have to debate as a party. Is there place for a person, for a grouping, and for a political entity that just wants to speak the truth, very deeply and heartily, like you know me, straight to the point, to take on these people that are lying? And is there place for a party in this country that believes that accountability to all these other parties that made promises must be there. So that’s the question.
It’s too soon to decide my future. You know, we’ve just got off, as I said, the blood on the floor, the haze of the gun smoke, the tears of upset. And I know that in the next 14 days, the UIM is doing a massive review, a recount in its own sense, like it should, and it should be looking at where did it go wrong?
But also, Chris, where did it go right? And may I give you the good news? 52 people took part in the elections, and the UIM ended at number 21 out of 52 parties in this country.
Chris Steyn (25:37.82)
Thank you, Neil. That was Neil de Beer, the President of United Independent Movement, speaking to BizNews about the future of South Africa after the election. I’m Chris Steyn.
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