* . *
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Privacy & Policy
  • Contact
Friday, November 14, 2025
Earth-News
  • Home
  • Business
  • Entertainment
    Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: An Elusive Threat Hints At A Bigger Danger In Belfast — Plus, Grade It! – Yahoo

    Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: A Shadowy Threat Reveals a Greater Danger in Belfast – Our Verdict Inside!

    Lancaster County’s 2026 quilt shows will have big changes; here’s what you need to know – LancasterOnline

    Exciting Changes Coming to Lancaster County’s 2026 Quilt Shows – Here’s What You Need to Know

    ‘The Price Is Right’ Contestant Said She ‘Manifested’ Her $100,000 Win – CBS 19 News

    ‘The Price Is Right’ Contestant Said She ‘Manifested’ Her $100,000 Win – CBS 19 News

    Billy Bob Thornton says Hollywood told him he ‘wasn’t southern enough’: ‘I am just off the turnip truck’ – Yahoo

    Billy Bob Thornton says Hollywood told him he ‘wasn’t southern enough’: ‘I am just off the turnip truck’ – Yahoo

    Nov. 13 Vallejo/Vacaville Arts/Entertainment Source: Activities – Times Herald Online

    Nov. 13 Vallejo/Vacaville Arts/Entertainment Source: Activities – Times Herald Online

    New Orleans Museum of Art director gets a French award started by Napoleon Bonaparte – NOLA.com

    New Orleans Museum of Art director gets a French award started by Napoleon Bonaparte – NOLA.com

  • General
  • Health
  • News

    Cracking the Code: Why China’s Economic Challenges Aren’t Shaking Markets, Unlike America’s” – Bloomberg

    Trump’s Narrow Window to Spread the Truth About Harris

    Trump’s Narrow Window to Spread the Truth About Harris

    Israel-Gaza war live updates: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh assassinated in Iran, group says

    Israel-Gaza war live updates: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh assassinated in Iran, group says

    PAP Boss to Niger Delta Youths, Stay Away from the Protest

    PAP Boss to Niger Delta Youths, Stay Away from the Protest

    Court Restricts Protests In Lagos To Freedom, Peace Park

    Court Restricts Protests In Lagos To Freedom, Peace Park

    Fans React to Jazz Jennings’ Inspiring Weight Loss Journey

    Fans React to Jazz Jennings’ Inspiring Weight Loss Journey

    Trending Tags

    • Trump Inauguration
    • United Stated
    • White House
    • Market Stories
    • Election Results
  • Science
  • Sports
  • Technology
    Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

    Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

    Predictive Technology Is Improving Warehouse Safety – ohsonline.com

    Predictive Technology Is Improving Warehouse Safety – ohsonline.com

    mPower Technology opens automated solar module line for space – pv magazine USA

    MPower Technology Launches Cutting-Edge Automated Solar Module Line for Space Applications

    Two Tigers land Liberty League All-Conference honors – Rochester Institute of Technology Athletics

    Two Tigers land Liberty League All-Conference honors – Rochester Institute of Technology Athletics

    Green Technology Book: Solutions for confronting climate disasters – Part 1: Water-related disasters – WIPO – World Intellectual Property Organization

    Green Technology Book: Solutions for confronting climate disasters – Part 1: Water-related disasters – WIPO – World Intellectual Property Organization

    Reimagining cybersecurity in the era of AI and quantum – MIT Technology Review

    Reimagining cybersecurity in the era of AI and quantum – MIT Technology Review

    Trending Tags

    • Nintendo Switch
    • CES 2017
    • Playstation 4 Pro
    • Mark Zuckerberg
No Result
View All Result
  • Home
  • Business
  • Entertainment
    Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: An Elusive Threat Hints At A Bigger Danger In Belfast — Plus, Grade It! – Yahoo

    Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: A Shadowy Threat Reveals a Greater Danger in Belfast – Our Verdict Inside!

    Lancaster County’s 2026 quilt shows will have big changes; here’s what you need to know – LancasterOnline

    Exciting Changes Coming to Lancaster County’s 2026 Quilt Shows – Here’s What You Need to Know

    ‘The Price Is Right’ Contestant Said She ‘Manifested’ Her $100,000 Win – CBS 19 News

    ‘The Price Is Right’ Contestant Said She ‘Manifested’ Her $100,000 Win – CBS 19 News

    Billy Bob Thornton says Hollywood told him he ‘wasn’t southern enough’: ‘I am just off the turnip truck’ – Yahoo

    Billy Bob Thornton says Hollywood told him he ‘wasn’t southern enough’: ‘I am just off the turnip truck’ – Yahoo

    Nov. 13 Vallejo/Vacaville Arts/Entertainment Source: Activities – Times Herald Online

    Nov. 13 Vallejo/Vacaville Arts/Entertainment Source: Activities – Times Herald Online

    New Orleans Museum of Art director gets a French award started by Napoleon Bonaparte – NOLA.com

    New Orleans Museum of Art director gets a French award started by Napoleon Bonaparte – NOLA.com

  • General
  • Health
  • News

    Cracking the Code: Why China’s Economic Challenges Aren’t Shaking Markets, Unlike America’s” – Bloomberg

    Trump’s Narrow Window to Spread the Truth About Harris

    Trump’s Narrow Window to Spread the Truth About Harris

    Israel-Gaza war live updates: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh assassinated in Iran, group says

    Israel-Gaza war live updates: Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh assassinated in Iran, group says

    PAP Boss to Niger Delta Youths, Stay Away from the Protest

    PAP Boss to Niger Delta Youths, Stay Away from the Protest

    Court Restricts Protests In Lagos To Freedom, Peace Park

    Court Restricts Protests In Lagos To Freedom, Peace Park

    Fans React to Jazz Jennings’ Inspiring Weight Loss Journey

    Fans React to Jazz Jennings’ Inspiring Weight Loss Journey

    Trending Tags

    • Trump Inauguration
    • United Stated
    • White House
    • Market Stories
    • Election Results
  • Science
  • Sports
  • Technology
    Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

    Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

    Predictive Technology Is Improving Warehouse Safety – ohsonline.com

    Predictive Technology Is Improving Warehouse Safety – ohsonline.com

    mPower Technology opens automated solar module line for space – pv magazine USA

    MPower Technology Launches Cutting-Edge Automated Solar Module Line for Space Applications

    Two Tigers land Liberty League All-Conference honors – Rochester Institute of Technology Athletics

    Two Tigers land Liberty League All-Conference honors – Rochester Institute of Technology Athletics

    Green Technology Book: Solutions for confronting climate disasters – Part 1: Water-related disasters – WIPO – World Intellectual Property Organization

    Green Technology Book: Solutions for confronting climate disasters – Part 1: Water-related disasters – WIPO – World Intellectual Property Organization

    Reimagining cybersecurity in the era of AI and quantum – MIT Technology Review

    Reimagining cybersecurity in the era of AI and quantum – MIT Technology Review

    Trending Tags

    • Nintendo Switch
    • CES 2017
    • Playstation 4 Pro
    • Mark Zuckerberg
No Result
View All Result
Earth-News
No Result
View All Result
Home Technology

You thought OpenStreetMap uses WGS84? No it doesn’t

May 16, 2024
in Technology
You thought OpenStreetMap uses WGS84? No it doesn’t
Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

More precisely, the WGS84 Datum is not used everywhere.

Here is some background:

The WGS84 Coordinate Reference System uses an ITRF datum, locked with the Earth’s rotation.

The tectonic plates we’re living on, are moving, up to 70 to 80 mm/year for the Australian plate, 20 to 25 mm/year for the Eurasian one.

The tectonic plates have internal distortions (we do ignore them here)

If you have a very accurate GNSS receiver which shows you WGS84 coordinates, and place it on a survey mark, because this mark moves, you won’t get the same coordinates year after year. If you surveyed a mark in Australia 13 years ago, today’s coordinates are 1 meter off. So, accurate WGS84 coordinates are not accurate at all if you don’t know the epoch, just as a time value is unuseful if you don’t know the time zone.
Working with dynamic coordinates would be a nightmare for the surveyors. To make their life easier they use a datum associated with their continental plate, locked at a point in time. And for a few decades now, many countries have chosen an ITRF datum and “locked” it at a specific date. With such a datum, the coordinates of survey marks remain the same over the years.

USA is using NAD83

Australian is using GDA94 (ITRS epoch 1994.0)

Europe is using ETRS89 (ITRS epoch 1993.0)

France (in europe) is using RGF93, a more accurate ETRS89 realization. We consider that RGF93=ETRS89.

You could object this is not an OSM problem : we use gpx trace, aerial imagery, opendata sets, all with WGS84 coordinates!

At first, don’t forget that a WGS84 datum without epoch can’t be accurate at a submeter level.

Secondly, if you use a standard GNSS receiver, it doesn’t matter, as your accuracy is too low (3 to 5 meters). If you use RTK, like I do, your datum is the one used by the base station, and it’s usually plated-fixed.

Thirdly, if your aerial imagery has a low resolution like 50cm/pixel, it will be very difficult to see small details.

However, we have more and more high-res imagery. In some places, you can see some survey marks and check the coordinates. Let’s go to Australia, next to the Mount Stromlo Observatory. This node is a GNSS antenna, part of the IGS network.
You can go to the Geoscience Australia website to find the GDA94 coordinates of this antenna and enter them in JOSM with the “Lat Lon Tool”.
Then, if you switch between the 3 good imagery (ACTmapi Imagery 2017, ACTmapi Imagery 2018, LPI Nsw Imagery), you will see that the antenna, the node with the GDA94 coordinates, and the 3 imagery layers, are aligned:
Stromlo GNSS Antenna (GDA94 coordinates)

Ok, but what are the WGS84/IRTF coordinates for this antenna? Luckily, you can download the data from this GNSS station and process them with a PPP software. The Australian online AUSPOS service gives you the PPP results with GDA94, GDA2020 and IRTF (@epoch data) coordinates. Here are the locations, more than 1.5m to north-east:
!! Stromlo GNSS Antenna (GDA94, GDA2020, IRTF coordinates)

The conclusion is that these imageries are not using an IRTF datum, but the local one: GDA94. Therefore any OSM data created using these layers are not in WGS84.

Now let’s go to France, to this node : https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/670517301

This is a survey mark with coordinates using RGF93 datum and the accuracy is better than 10cm.
survey_point near Charly
The alignment is good. We can say that this imagery layer use RGF93, not WGS84, or we would have seen a 70 to 80 cm offset. I’ve checked check some other survey marks in the country…all aerial imagery are RGF93/ETRS89.

This is our first problem: Some OSM data are not using WGS84 coordinates ; the offset could be as high as 2 meters.

Our second issue is: How do we guarantee a good accuracy over the years?

Here are a couple of options.

We keep using local datums.

This is simple, but we don’t want too many datums: perhaps we should select a single datum for each tectonic plate.

Aerial imageries with the same local datum remain aligned.

We should inform data consumers, so that they can decide to convert the coordinates to WGS84 if they want to.

We will need to move a lot of data when a new datum replaces an old one (more on that later)

We convert all data to an ITRF datum.

We must convert data with local datum (Australia, France, …) to WGS84. This is not an easy task, but this is feasible with a plate motion model.

The date a node is created in OSM doesn’t inform about the original epoch.

Should we keep the old aerial imageries to their original location, or transform them to today’s location? It could be difficult for the editors (Josm, ID, …) to do this if there is a translation and a rotation.

When you load data in an editor, it should check all nodes coordinates, find the epochs, and dynamicaly move them to the actual localization with an Helmert transformation. It would be the same problem if you want to reuse the data. Another way is to create a bot which moves all the nodes in the database regularly (twice a year?).

Prone to errors

Whatever the decision is, we should check what is the real datum of all high-res imagery. To do so we need more reference points that are visible on one or more imagery. These could be a survey mark on the ground with public and accurate coordinates, or a GNSS antenna on or near the ground (we can’t use an object on a roof) with observation data freely available. I’ve already started a list on the wiki, feel free to add more reference points. A new tag on these nodes would be useful.

Let’s go back to Australia: The Auspos service provides GNSS coordinates with 3 datums : GDA94, WGS84 and GDA2020. What is the last one? As you know, the Australian plate is moving pretty fast. In 2020 the offset between GDA94 and the real location will be more than 1.8 meters. They decided they will use a new datum from 2020: GDA2020
It means that new high-res aerial imagery in this country will have a big offset relative to the old imagery.
They will use a dynamic reference frame too, but I’m not sure it will be used by the GIS world: ATRF

Another country will change its datum : the U.S.A., with the plate-fixed NATRF2022, in replacement of NAD83.

Summary:

On Earth, everything is moving, up to 80mm/year.

A fix point on a tectonic plate will see its WGS84 coordinates changing over the years, but the same point have static coordinates with a plate-fixed local datum.

WGS84 coordinates without epoch can’t be accurate.

Contrary to what is stated, not all OSM data are using a WGS84 datum. In some country, the offset could be as high as 1.8 meters.

Some aerial imagery are not using a WGS84 coordinate reference system, but a local datum.

What should OSM do? Keep the dynamic WGS84 coordinates, or use some local datums as the surveyor’s world do?

Thank you to naomap for his help with the translation.

>>> Read full article>>>
Copyright for syndicated content belongs to the linked Source : Hacker News – https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/StephaneP/diary/390290

Tags: OpenStreetMaptechnologyThought
Previous Post

F* – A Proof-Oriented Programming Language

Next Post

What’s New in Neovim 0.10

France 4-0 Ukraine (Nov 13, 2025) Game Analysis – ESPN

France Crushes Ukraine in a Spectacular 4-0 Triumph on November 13, 2025

November 14, 2025
Fed’s December decision ‘obvious’ as something isn’t right with the economy: MetLife’s Drew Matus – CNBC

Why the Fed’s December Move Sends a Strong Warning About the Economy

November 14, 2025
Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: An Elusive Threat Hints At A Bigger Danger In Belfast — Plus, Grade It! – Yahoo

Blue Lights Season 3 Premiere Recap: A Shadowy Threat Reveals a Greater Danger in Belfast – Our Verdict Inside!

November 14, 2025
Vanderbilt Institute for Global Health marks 20 years – VUMC News

Two Decades of Transforming Global Health: The Vanderbilt Institute’s Inspiring Journey

November 14, 2025
Exclusive: Trump administration holds Situation Room meeting over House effort to force release of all of DOJ’s Epstein files – CNN

Trump Administration Holds Urgent Situation Room Meeting as House Demands Full Release of DOJ Epstein Files

November 14, 2025
Washington forest board takes 200,000 acres out of production – Capital Press

Washington Forest Board Removes 200,000 Acres from Production in Major Move

November 14, 2025
Science Hill’s Sawyer Ward (top) wrestles Montgomery Central’s Audrey Levendusky on her way to gold in the 152-pound weight class at last season’s TSSAA state tournament in Franklin. – Kingsport Times News

Science Hill’s Sawyer Ward (top) wrestles Montgomery Central’s Audrey Levendusky on her way to gold in the 152-pound weight class at last season’s TSSAA state tournament in Franklin. – Kingsport Times News

November 14, 2025
Bluestar Alliance Completes Acquisition of Iconic Workwear and Lifestyle Brand Dickies™ from VF Corporation – PR Newswire

Bluestar Alliance Takes Iconic Workwear and Lifestyle Brand Dickies™ to New Heights

November 14, 2025
Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

Figure Technology stock spikes after Q3 revenue surpasses consensus (FIGR:NASDAQ) – Seeking Alpha

November 14, 2025
‘He’s just impossible:’ Nikola Jokić’s 55-point game? The best player in the world is having a season like no other — ever – Yahoo Sports

‘He’s just impossible:’ Nikola Jokić’s 55-point game? The best player in the world is having a season like no other — ever – Yahoo Sports

November 13, 2025

Categories

Archives

November 2025
M T W T F S S
 12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
« Oct    
Earth-News.info

The Earth News is an independent English-language daily published Website from all around the World News

Browse by Category

  • Business (20,132)
  • Ecology (918)
  • Economy (939)
  • Entertainment (21,812)
  • General (18,167)
  • Health (9,978)
  • Lifestyle (948)
  • News (22,149)
  • People (940)
  • Politics (950)
  • Science (16,150)
  • Sports (21,438)
  • Technology (15,918)
  • World (924)

Recent News

France 4-0 Ukraine (Nov 13, 2025) Game Analysis – ESPN

France Crushes Ukraine in a Spectacular 4-0 Triumph on November 13, 2025

November 14, 2025
Fed’s December decision ‘obvious’ as something isn’t right with the economy: MetLife’s Drew Matus – CNBC

Why the Fed’s December Move Sends a Strong Warning About the Economy

November 14, 2025
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Privacy & Policy
  • Contact

© 2023 earth-news.info

No Result
View All Result

© 2023 earth-news.info

No Result
View All Result

© 2023 earth-news.info

Go to mobile version